Next Saturday it will be two years since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. When news meets Jens Stoltenberg at NATO headquarters, the war is in a difficult phase for Ukraine. Ukrainian forces have had to withdraw from the town of Avdijivka. The country lacks ammunition, anti-aircraft defenses, rockets and fighter planes. “We will give Ukraine what it needs to win this war,” NATO’s secretary general said as the one-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion was marked. – How does the lift stand now, one year later? – NATO countries have given enormous amounts of military support to Ukraine. But it is of course serious that one country in particular – the United States – is struggling to get a decision on further support in place. So in recent months we have clearly given less than what we should give. And it has had an effect on the battlefield, says Jens Stoltenberg. STRONGER: – The world has become more dangerous, but NATO has become stronger, says Jens Stoltenberg to news. A serious situation – How would you describe the situation on the ground now, two years later? – It is a very serious situation. The Ukrainians are under severe pressure, and they have also had to give up some positions, says Stoltenberg. – Having said that, we must not allow ourselves to be overwhelmed by pessimism. Partly because pessimists never win wars. But also because it is important to realize that Ukraine has actually achieved a lot, says the Secretary-General. He mentions the recapture of land, successful attacks behind Russian lines, the destruction of Russian aircraft, helicopters and weapons depots, and how Ukraine has opened up parts of the Black Sea by sinking Russian ships. OPTIMIST: Pessimists do not win wars, says Jens Stoltenberg. Photo: SIMEN EKERN – They have inflicted heavy losses which make the Russians pay a heavy price. But the most important thing is that Ukraine has survived as a democratic, independent nation in Europe. That was precisely what Putin wanted to take away from them. He has not succeeded in that, says Stoltenberg. – But is it credible when NATO still says that Ukraine can win this war? Or is it too late to send the weapons that have not already been sent? – War goes in phases. Wars are unpredictable. But it is entirely possible for Ukraine to succeed in this war by getting a result that means they are a democratic, independent nation in Europe and can also move closer to NATO and the EU and can eventually become a member of both organizations, says Stoltenberg . IN VILNIUS: Jonas Gahr Støre, Rishi Sunak, Joe Biden, Giorgia Meloni, Jens Stoltenberg and Volodymyr Zelenskyj together at the NATO summit last year. Photo: NTB Expensive and dangerous Putin victory – Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban is clear that Hungary will not send weapons to Ukraine, and that support for Ukraine is a waste of money. He stands quite alone among European heads of state, but many parties and voters in Europe agree with him. Why are they wrong? – It is in our security interest to prevent Putin from winning. Because it would be dangerous for us. It will send a message to him and to other authoritarian leaders that when they use military force, they get what they want, says Stoltenberg. – But most importantly: If Putin were to win in Ukraine, then we must allocate much more for defence. Because then the world becomes even more uncertain, and the risk of him trying his hand at new countries increases, he says. – There is no cheap solution to having an aggressive neighbor. AFTER THE MEETING: The press briefings with Scandinavian journalists have been a regular item on the program following NATO meetings on Ukraine. – There have been several warnings about an increased risk of Russia attacking a NATO country. Denmark’s defense minister believed it could happen within 3–5 years. How great is this danger of war? – The world has become more dangerous. But NATO has become significantly stronger, precisely to prevent anyone from attacking NATO. And to remove any room for misunderstandings or misjudgments in Moscow about NATO’s ability and willingness to protect all member states, says Stoltenberg. – We have no information that indicates any immediate military threat to any NATO country. We have not received any new information indicating that that risk has increased. – The Danish minister said that he based the warnings on new information. – There is no new information other than a pattern, where Russia has used military force against its neighbors for several years, says the Secretary-General. – We can imagine terrorist attacks. Cyber attacks may occur. Other types of aggressive acts. But we are absolutely certain that NATO will protect against military attacks. NATO countries are safe there. Therefore, any attempt to undermine or talk down that guarantee is dangerous. It increases the risk of attack. A SORT OF DIALOGUE: Jens Stoltenberg has been praised for the way he handled President Donald Trump. Photo: NTB Trump’s threats – Donald Trump has once again cast doubt on NATO’s willingness to defend member states. You have received a lot of praise for keeping the alliance together in a difficult time, and for being able to talk to Trump. In light of his recent dramatic statements, have you thought about whether you should have done anything differently in the dialogue with Trump? – I am very keen to convey to American politicians and the American people that a strong NATO is good for Europe, but it is also good for the USA. Therefore, I expect that regardless of who is elected president this autumn, the US will continue to be a solid NATO ally, says Stoltenberg. – Many US presidents have agreed that European countries have spent far too little on defence. There has been an unfair distribution of the burden. But the good news now is that it is really starting to change. 18 out of 30 NATO countries will spend 2% or more of their gross domestic product on defense this year. – But the question is whether Trump’s attitude runs much deeper? “I screw up in Nato,” he told his national security adviser. That is why we also see several European leaders talking about Europe now having to stand more on its own two feet. Do you have a greater understanding of it today than a few years ago? – No, basically I haven’t. Because I think the appeal that Europe should go it alone in matters of security policy is dangerous. I don’t believe in Europe alone, and I don’t believe in North America alone. We must not now start making self-fulfilling prophecies that can give one or the other party in the alliance an excuse for not standing up for each other, says the general secretary. IT IS COMPLICATED: French President Emmanuel Macron has long spoken about the need for a more independent European defence. Photo: AP – The EU cannot defend Europe. NATO must defend Europe. But then we have to stick together. When autumn comes – Where does the war stand when you step down as general secretary in the autumn? – I am careful about predicting. But there is a danger that we are in a situation similar to the one we see today, with front lines that are quite locked and neither party is really able to win much land, at least not Ukraine, says Stoltenberg. – We must do everything we can to make Putin understand that he is not going to win. And the more military aid Ukraine gets, the sooner he has to accept that Ukraine is not a country he can control. It is uncertain when that may happen, but it is certain that it will happen sooner the more support we give to Ukraine.
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Stoltenberg two years after the invasion – news Urix – Foreign news and documentaries
