– It’s been a while since I’ve been here now. I have been traveling so much. Jens Stoltenberg strolls along a wide path in the Bois de la Cambre in Brussels, the park where he relaxes as often as he can. NATO’s Secretary General has lived with the war for a year. He has behind him a week filled with defense ministers in Brussels, talks with the Turkish president in Ankara and meetings with all kinds of security leaders in Munich. – This park is my most important … it is my little Nordmarka. NORDMARKA IN BRUSSELS: Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in the park where he disconnects as often as he can. Photo: Simen Ekern / news NATO no We will come back to this with Nordmarka in due course. There are more important issues for Stoltenberg: The most important thing he can do in his life is to lead NATO in this phase, he said last time he took a new round of extension as Secretary General. It’s been a little over a year now. A year that has changed the world for good. When Stoltenberg sums up, it is an incident at the very beginning of the war that remains among the most decisive for him. – There have been so many horrible moments, so it is difficult to point to one in particular. But what made a big impression on me personally was the conversation I had with President Zelenskyj very shortly after the invasion, where he asked NATO for a no-fly zone to prevent all the Russian attacks, says the Secretary-General. The NATO countries could not fulfill that wish. BEFORE THE WAR: Volodymyr Zelenskyj and Jens Stoltenberg in December 2021 Photo: JOHN THYS / AFP – Zelenskyj is a person I have worked with and met several times before the invasion. Saying no to that, I still find painful, says Stoltenberg. – But it is an expression of the balancing act we have to make: Support Ukraine, but prevent a full-scale war between NATO and Russia. Art of balance That balancing act is also expressed in the type of weapon that is sent. “We will give Ukraine what it needs to win this war,” Stoltenberg has said several times in recent weeks. But it takes time. And once it has been decided that the key to peace is to enable the Ukrainians to repel Russian attacks, the wait can seem long. – Do you get frustrated by the long discussions within the NATO countries about what type of weapons can be sent and when? Could this have been done faster? – I think it is futile to discuss whether something could have been done sooner or earlier. Everyone must understand that this is a new and dangerous situation. We must coordinate and be responsible in the decisions we make, says Stoltenberg. WEAPONS & AMMUNITION: Stoltenberg announced increased deliveries of ammunition at the NATO defense minister’s meeting last week. Photo: Simen Ekern / news – Now we have to look ahead. What is happening now is an enormous mobilization both to bring in more ammunition and more weapons, but not least to increase our own production. Ukraine’s current consumption of ammunition is significantly greater than our production capacity. That says something about the scale of this war. Back to the trenches Recently, there have been several, including among Zelenskyi’s colleagues, who have compared what is now happening in the east of Ukraine to the trench warfare during the First World War. Stoltenberg believes the parallel makes sense. IN THE TRENCHES: Soldiers in the trenches near Marjinka on 14 February. Photo: MARKO DJURICA / Reuters – Yes. The Russians are throwing waves of soldiers against defensive lines. Often former prisoners are enlisted. They throw them forward, knowing that they are going to take very big losses. And then sends the best soldiers afterwards, to gain some ground. – Are there any limits to how many inexperienced soldiers Putin is willing to sacrifice? – It hardly looks like that. It is a brutality, a willingness to sacrifice one’s own soldiers that is frightening, bloody, brutal and cruel, says Stoltenberg. – The Russian armed forces have low morale, poor quality equipment and poor logistics. But they are many. And what they lack in quality, they make up for in quantity. That makes this war extra bloody. Weapons and negotiations In a number of European countries, a debate is ongoing as to whether arms aid to Ukraine should be followed up with demands for a willingness to negotiate. This is a war that concerns everyone, and then we also have the right to discuss what the premises for a negotiation should be, not just wait until Ukraine says they want to negotiate, the famous German philosopher Jürgen Habermas has recently claimed. – This will probably end in negotiations. But any signal that we do not fully stand by Ukraine reduces the possibility of a peaceful solution. It is only when Putin realizes that he is not winning on the battlefield that we can hope for a negotiated solution, says Stoltenberg. IN JAPAN: “What happens in Europe today, could happen in Asia tomorrow”, says Jens Stoltenberg. Here on a visit to Iruma Air Base on 31 January this year. Photo: KAZUHIRO NOGI / AFP Based on such a thought, NATO’s Secretary General does not leave much hope for the notified Chinese publisher on peace negotiations, which is expected this week. – China basically has low credibility. They are among the few countries that have not managed to condemn Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. And they are a country that cooperates ever more closely with Russia. And there is growing concern that China may come to give support to Russia. So we’ll see what’s coming and evaluate it then. Back to Nordmarka – Has this year of war changed you in any way? – Yes, it has. After the Cold War, many of us hoped that it would be possible to have a cooperative relationship with Russia. That hope has disappeared, says Stoltenberg. – I have no faith that it can be established with the regime we have in Moscow today. This does not mean that Stoltenberg will talk about a hypothetical future in Russia after Vladimir Putin has fallen. – I am very careful about saying anything about regime change in Moscow. That is not what is on NATO’s agenda. What is on our agenda is to support Ukraine. If Putin wins in Ukraine, it is a tragedy for the Ukrainians, but it is also dangerous for us, says the Secretary General. Today’s walk in the Brussels Nordmarka is at the end of the road. Stoltenberg will move on to other agreements. Where he is going in the autumn, he does not want to say much about. – Are you going to be Secretary General of NATO when this war ends? – I’m afraid I’m not, because I’m afraid it will last a long time. And I will retire in the fall. – Will it be possible for you to say no, if everyone asks you to continue one more time? – I have made it clear that I will quit on the first of October, when my term expires.
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– A willingness to sacrifice soldiers that is frightening, bloody, brutal and cruel – news Urix – Foreign news and documentaries
